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White Fargo
Jimmie, that Nissan thing is a bad example as at least I can`t see where that other line goes to for sure and who knows if the writer is using correct terminology.
The word "surge" gets confusing because a rad surge tank is truly a surge tank but vented where a hydralic loop (not a circle in the tubing but a separate circuit as I described)cannot be vented or the system would be rendered useless.
Just for the record I did study hydralics a loooong time ago but never got so involved as to do calculations on friction loss in a pipe. Common sence tells me there is not enough friction in a looped clutch line to make any noticable difference.

I don`t believe there is any way to prevent hammering in a solid circuit without using an air chamber,spring loaded piston or diaphram or expandable (like a baloon) piping.

All friction would do is produce heat and slow the action.

I am sure we can all agree that fluid will not compress, without compression there is no absorbtion of hammering.
Can you show us any kind of assembly line, auto,, heavey equipment hydralic circuits that use a circle in a piece of pipe that dampens. Phsyco babble about calculations don`t do it for this dummy.
I respecfully suggest that somewhere sometime you got the term "hydralic loop" confused with a circle in a piece of pipe as apposed to a separate circuit loop. Some loops are tied in to just a single line and others at both ends of the circuit, both the pressure side and the business side to absorb harmful hammering. They could have several circuits all going to a main absorbtion unit.
Possibly you could give those of us driven by curiosity a link to an appropriate engineering forum where you could ask the question and we could get some factual answers and examples.

On the one hand I hear that the Nissan page shows things that aren't visible and/or aren't there such as air chambers & springs, then I'm told that what is visible can't be seen? Also that the author cannot be trusted to use the right terminology? Of course the other possibility, that he knows exactly what he's talking about, isn't really considered?

Okay, so did you pore over the pages I originally posted in other threads, about fluid engineering? Did you read what was said, and the many references from one page to another?

If you did it would tell you that hydraulic systems aren't designed with 'Common Sense', they're designed with scientific principles and engineering. If you read those pages at links you would know that the statements I've made are true & correct. You would understand that the friction and turn of bends is plenty to reduce surge waves in a system up to a certain level. If you had read that stuff I already posted you'd know that an air chamber, spring loaded piston or diaphragm is not needed to reduce hammering in some systems, such as the hydraulic clutch system.

You stated, "All friction would do is produce heat and slow the action." PRECISELY, THAT'S IT! Now you have it! It does just that and thereby removes the harmonics of wave, cancels it!

"without compression there is no absorbtion of hammering." Absorption? How about removing the root cause, as wave harmonics in the fluid medium? It's similar to bullets. The gun shoots & you hear a 'CRACK' as it fires. Somebody might say the only way to absorb that sound wave is to put a silencer on, to absorb it. WRONG! The easiest way is to use sub-sonic ammunition, that the bullet doesn't break the sound barrier by its velocity to begin with! That's a good analogy of how a surge loop or surge coil can remove shockwaves & hammering, by simply lowering velocity, only as much as is needed to attenuate wave.

It's also similar to a trumpet or a trombone having forced air pressure present. By changing position of a valve the pressure/velocity/cyclic vibration is changed ever so slightly but there's a huge difference in the musical note that's emitted. It is the change in pressure/velocity/wave that cancels one wave and starts another, or causes them to flow together and the change is very 'small'. Sure doesn't sound like it to a crowd in a stadium!

You ask for machinery pictures showing such a loop. I already showed you an automotive hydraulic clutch assembly that uses a surge loop, with pictures & supporting text describing that it is a surge dampener. Nope, that's unbelieveable, try again?

"I respecfully suggest that somewhere sometime you got the term "hydralic loop" confused with a circle in a piece of pipe as apposed to a separate circuit loop. Some loops are tied in to just a single line and others at both ends of the circuit, both the pressure side and the business side to absorb harmful hammering. They could have several circuits all going to a main absorbtion unit."

I thought you said loops couldn't absorb hammering? In the paragraph above you say they can? But why is it I who's confused on this issue and the correct terms, when I'm the one who described years of schooling, study, research and hands-on experience? I'm the one that showed you guys where the answers are, those answers from the minds of experts and designers in the field, and the most famous names in Thermodynamics, Science & Engineering but you want me to go find the answers? First read what has already been posted

I already belong to the Engineering forums and visit there often because that was a major part of my life's work & interests. I already spend time there often in chit chat & tossing stuff back & forth.

I suggest you guys go there & tell them what you think and see how far it flies. See if your theories, exactly as presented here, unchanged, are agreed to by working Engineers?